On this podcast interview with Luke Smith of his firm Purpose (the first of 2), you'll hear Luke describe in detail what he says, what he does, how he says it and how he does it to earn the right to charge an average fee across all of of clients in excess of £20,000.
So why not join me on this HumaniseTheNumbers.online podcast and hear what Luke has to say about how he does a brilliant job of working with these clients and also demonstrates the value that his firm delivers to his clients.
I hope you enjoy the podcast.
"The minimum entry is quarterly management accounts and board meetings. Otherwise, we're not that interested. So minimum fees, probably around 10, 11 grand, something like that.
If you're a million quid business and I can find your 2%, we've got you your money back - I've never not found 2%.
That's why the turnover has to be relatively high, because the margin of error, the sensitivity of that 2% . Most of the time you have a pricing conversation, which is 6% and with that you've done three years fees."
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TRANSCRIPT - unedited
[00:00:00] Paul Shrimpling: [00:00:00] Welcome to the humanized, the numbers podcast, series leaders, managers, and owners of ambitious accounting firms, sharing insight, successes, and issues that will challenge you and connect you and your firm to the ways and means of transforming your firms results.
[00:00:20] Luke Smith: [00:00:20] If you're a million quid and I can find your 2%, we've got your money back.
[00:00:25] Yeah. So I've never found, not found 2%. Okay. And that sort of the that's the problem. That's why the turnover has to be relatively high because the margin of error, the sensitivity of that 2% is, uh, you know, uh, most of the time you have a pricing conversation, which is 6% and you've done three years fees.
[00:00:42] So it's not, it's not massively difficult to justify your existence for the first couple of years.
[00:00:49] Paul Shrimpling: [00:00:49] How do you answer the challenging questions from prospects or clients when they pose, what am I getting for my money? To, you know, it's one thing to [00:01:00] respond to that challenging question. If you're talking about accountancy and tax services, but what about when you're talking to them about business growth advisory services.
[00:01:08] Now on this podcast interview, you're going to hear Luke Smith from his firm purpose on the Island of Jersey and Luke's firm is predominantly an advisory firm. They, they bill far more for their advisory services and they do for their accountancy services. So when Luke gets asked the question, what am I getting for my money?
[00:01:25] He's got to know what he's talking about and you'll hear what is his approach, what he says and then, and how he tackles that challenging question amongst other valuable insights. Now, this podcast is different because it's not just Luke and I chewing the fat. You're going to hear all the voices from accountants who were in a group session with me and Luke quizzing him on exactly how he runs his firm.
[00:01:50] Let's go to that discussion now. Would you,
[00:01:54] Luke Smith: [00:01:54] um, to start with,
[00:01:56] Paul Shrimpling: [00:01:56] please give us a little bit of background to, [00:02:00] uh, purpose the nature of the firm and, um, how it started and, and, and, and bring us up
[00:02:06] Luke Smith: [00:02:06] to date as quickly as you can do that. Yeah. So, um, my original background was, um, trained with KPMG in audit in financial services clients here in Jersey, um, left that.
[00:02:21] After three or four years went into prac, uh, went into industry and was, uh, FDA of a local trust company. Um, for three or four years, chance came to buy back into a local practice, had about a hundred hundred clients, something like that, me and a business partner. And in 2007. Um, and I've been working for that, that, that, that firm was called Foxy night and purposes.
[00:02:46] A name change from that from back in 2007. Um, me and the business partner decided the only way to stay friends was to stop working together in 2011. So Andy went off, we split the, [00:03:00] uh, client base. He took 95, 94 clients and 30% of the revenue. And I took six clients and 70% of the revenue. Um, and that was the beginning of purpose.
[00:03:13] So, um, the main reason for the, for the split was, uh, he very much wanted to continue down the routes of, um, sausage factory compliance. And obviously my clients were worth a lot more than his, on the average. Um, and, uh, it wasn't fair that, that, that the way that we were splitting everything in the direction of travel for the business.
[00:03:35] So that happened in 2011. And I had, uh, George who was 17 and Barry, who was 63, uh, come along, um, with me at that time to manage those six clients since then. Um, we're now up to, I think, around. 40 clients, 38, 40 clients, something like that. Um, so slow progress, [00:04:00] but you know, average fees around 25 grands, um, a year and, um, lots of extra transactional work, uh, based on these clients, all being sort of fairly active in M and a and, um, business growth, um, and, and things like that.
[00:04:19] So we're now, um, I dunno. I think we've probably got 12, 11 or 12 people, and we got a couple in the Philippines, um, who do sort of some nuts and bolts, but keeping about a third of the client base is, um, full outsource. So they don't have anybody in their business that does bookkeeping, financial control, anything.
[00:04:43] We do everything for them. So basically an outsource finance function. Um, and, um, the rest of them are either on a quarterly or monthly board meeting cycle where we run the board meetings, all of them, [00:05:00] uh, except for a couple of mates from football who are just annoying. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I went to a couple of favors for friends, but generally split them.
[00:05:12] The minimum entry is quarterly management accounts and board meetings. Um, Otherwise, we just, not that interested. So minimum, other than a couple of mates, minimum fees, probably around 10, 11 grand, something like that. Right. Brilliant.
[00:05:28] Paul Shrimpling: [00:05:28] So, um, when you, um, form NewCo in 2011, you started with the name purpose
[00:05:37] Luke Smith: [00:05:37] then?
[00:05:38] No, sorry. We kept fluxing for a little bit. Paul went to see, um, Steve pipe in London and, uh, Paul Dunn turned up at the end of the day. And a red is red film of the future, which was life-changing at the time and then read another 40 or 50 business books. Um, and then came up Paul and Masami came [00:06:00] over, uh, in 2013 for the name changing.
[00:06:05] Ceremony at a local hotel. And, um, that was good fun. Um, and at that time I think we had a bow, but it wasn't many, it was probably 10 testifying, something, not 10, 10, 15 clients, something like that. Um, and, um, yeah, I mean the whole, the, the whole Simon Sinek video was the start of, um, understanding why and going on that journey and, uh, Nothing majorly new has come along since then really in terms of the whole, the whole purpose driven business.
[00:06:38] Um, and, uh, yeah, sometimes I still look at it and think what a stupid name, but generally speaking, it's fine. You know, and it's not, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's different. Yeah. Because I would one for an accounting firm, it holds you to a different standard, which can be helpful, but can also not be helpful.
[00:06:57] Um, you know, so, [00:07:00] uh, but generally I think. Well, staff don't leave unless we want them to there's, there's certainly a, a driven, um, element to what we're doing and we try our best to articulate purpose throughout whatever we do. So it's, it's not inauthentic just sometimes it's can be. You know, it's a high standard to hold yourself to the whole time.
[00:07:22] Paul Shrimpling: [00:07:22] Yeah. Yeah. And, and I get that. And what you did that consciously at the time, did you?
[00:07:26] Luke Smith: [00:07:26] Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It wasn't, it wasn't Paul's idea. So, uh, you know, um, then it was all, otherwise I should've just got into investment banking and made a fortune, um, you know, sell, sell yourself, but actually you can, we've done some really cool things over the last five or six years with clients in terms of turning around failing businesses.
[00:07:45] Um, And saving a lot of jobs. I mean, there's been quite a few job cuts as well in places, but, um, you know, all of the businesses are stronger for guiding through the process with us. Definitely. So all your clients
[00:08:00] [00:07:59] Paul Shrimpling: [00:07:59] are stronger in what, in what sense are they stronger?
[00:08:03] Luke Smith: [00:08:03] Uh, well they know they know their numbers, so they are making better decisions on the fly.
[00:08:09] Because they know, for example, if, if someone's asking for a 10% discount and then net margin is 8%, that that's a bad plan. Um, they all think they know that gross margins. None of them do. Um, none of them include anything other than direct costs in, in pricing, which means that quite often they, they lose money.
[00:08:29] Um, and they don't have visibility in the sort of size of clients we have. So we normally have. The sort of entry point of around a million turnover. If, if you're at a million turnover, you haven't normally just got one product or one department, and most of them don't understand the difference between what the different departments making and how they interact and the cost of the admin of those departments.
[00:08:51] So, um, there's lots of things that. Um, visible until you properly set up the chart of accounts and [00:09:00] understand how it all works. Yeah.
[00:09:02] Paul Shrimpling: [00:09:02] Yeah. There you go.
[00:09:04] Luke Smith: [00:09:04] Um, Luke, I'm delighted to see the questions that are coming in already. Um, what would you like to, uh, unmute and just ask you a question, uh, yourself. Uh, yes.
[00:09:15] Uh, Monistat. Um, yeah, look, my question really it's fairly straightforward in terms of this is obviously it'd be high value stuff.
[00:09:23] Paul Shrimpling: [00:09:23] Um,
[00:09:23] Luke Smith: [00:09:23] do you do your, the director's meetings older sell for her? Have you staff that are sufficiently confident too? Yeah, so yeah. So the, um, the staff aren't confident enough to argue directly with someone who's run their business for 10 to 15 years.
[00:09:40] But we, we do have them do all of the presentation of the numbers and the insight and analysis. So, um, George or Johnny who are our senior managers, they will, um, come in, present the figures, talk about why the graphs of chains and the way they've changed, um, where I have to sort of jelly or I'm a business partner I have to step [00:10:00] in is okay.
[00:10:01] So what do we do about it? And, um, so there is still an oversight role in terms of. Acting as a, as a last day, strategic FD. Um, but in terms of the actual insights, um, the boys are very capable of, um, of delivering that themselves. And, um, we're just starting to bring the juniors into the board meetings as, um, sort of note takers.
[00:10:27] And they're starting to see how the boys do their presentations and the boys are getting more confident seeing us do our arguing. But, um, accountants are generally known for being argumentative and whether a lot of the value comes in these board meetings is, uh, is having, you know, rational arguments about the figures.
[00:10:47] So that's the next step of there. We do a lot of work on confidence. You know, most of the work is on confidence and. Um, having them sit in the room and argue with someone who's run a business for 10 years, it [00:11:00] takes quite a while for someone to have that confidence. Yeah. I would have
[00:11:04] Paul Shrimpling: [00:11:04] thought so. Yeah. Good question.
[00:11:05] Thanks Warren. Can we come
[00:11:07] Luke Smith: [00:11:07] to you next? Kevin Bartlett. Morning, Luke. Um, my, my question
[00:11:12] Paul Shrimpling: [00:11:12] was based, um, on, on, on the firms or most of the firms I would imagine that are, um, are
[00:11:19] Luke Smith: [00:11:19] on this call. Um, sort of
[00:11:21] Paul Shrimpling: [00:11:21] still being back probably where you were back in 2007. Um, and I just wondered. Um, how, whether you thought it was that much easier in making the transition that you did in the sense that you already had those six clients who you were providing that for, as compared to say a
[00:11:40] Luke Smith: [00:11:40] firm like mine, where, you know, we're, you know, if we go down that route, we're jumping in completely blind into it.
[00:11:49] Yeah, I mean, circumstances helps. Um, but, um, we weren't doing, I wasn't doing advisory back in until sort of [00:12:00] 2012 when Andy left and we were doing just a lot of work for them because they were big firms. And what I had to justify to them was that they should actually bother listening to me. You know, that was the, that was the first hurdle was, was actually having credibility.
[00:12:14] Who's this, you know, Sort of 30 year old accounts and he's telling me how to run my business and actually, you know, what, what, what it came down to was I did do that reading, you know, it took a long time to do all that reading and understand the theory well. Um, but what we've noticed over the last few years, actually, some of the clients, um, who are on the monthly service and now moving to the quarterly service and they have been taught all the theory, you know, I've got nothing left to really teach them.
[00:12:44] And actually they're just getting value from the boys and from the management accounts process. So we've got probably five or six separate ones, 20 to 20%. Um, that less of the client base who are just having the ball packs [00:13:00] and the reporting from the boys. And actually the advisory piece is just giving them visibility.
[00:13:04] It's not having those arguments because they're past that stage. Now they know most of it. They're occasionally, alternatively, just say what you're doing about this or that or whatever, but, but actually, um, uh, It's a lot, you know, we're thinking about, um, we've got an opportunity to set up a compliance-based berm and we've got, we've got a client, who's got 400 entities that use other accounts you've burned.
[00:13:26] So we're thinking of creating a sausage factory for that. And I think that's going to be easier because, um, we won't turn purpose into both. We'll have them separate, um, because we'd just w we couldn't do it now. I don't think we'd go back the other way. And I don't think the staff would tolerate it. So there is setting up if I was to do it from where you guys, where I would, I would set up a separate department for doing that type of work.
[00:13:50] It's too difficult to create. Um, what we've done from within doing all the compliance. I think it's too difficult to do that. Having a [00:14:00] little dedicated team to do it, um, would, would probably be the best way, the best way of doing it. I think, um, we're producing. 130 sets of management accounts a month with, with 10 people.
[00:14:12] Um, so that's proper asset every month board meetings at the end of every month. And we only missed two or three. So doing that as well as with our compliance work suffers, you know, we, we still have a hundred sets of accounts to do a year. Um, and, uh, we're not great at that. So, um, you know, that's, that's where we fall down.
[00:14:34] Paul Shrimpling: [00:14:34] Thanks
[00:14:35] Luke Smith: [00:14:35] Karen. We'll go. One more slide. And then I'll move back to you, Paul and Brandon, do you want to ask your question? Come off mute and ask your question. Yeah. Hi, Luke. Um, How have you on your new clients to grow from six to 40 and what works best in attracting them to your firm?
[00:14:52] Paul Shrimpling: [00:14:52] Okay, Brendan, we're going to come to that question in a minute.
[00:14:55] All right. Yeah, no, that's, you know, it's a great question. I just there's there's I just want to pick up on [00:15:00] something Kevin covered off first and then, and then we'll come to, well, how do you win those clients? Because that's exactly where this is going. All right. So brilliant question. Um, I, I want to just dive into this, your, your comment Luke, about credibility.
[00:15:15] So established, so you've, you've, you've not run businesses like your clients have run their businesses and you're trying to tell them or not trying, you are telling them what to do, arguing the toss with them. Um, based on something else I read in
[00:15:28] Luke Smith: [00:15:28] a book. Yeah. You know, we don't take on competing clients.
[00:15:34] So none of our fines do the same thing. Um, and that obviously child uterine scalability is challenging, but in Jersey, I didn't think that I could justify. Being, uh, what is a virtual last D to two competing businesses? Just doesn't it doesn't work over here. So, um, what the con the conversation goes along the lines of, I don't know how to fix the car, or I don't know how to run a [00:16:00] higher services company or recruitment agency.
[00:16:03] What I do know is the interaction between costs and revenue, staff, utilization, recoverability, um, margin, um, pricing, their operational effectiveness, all those things. And all businesses are the same. You buy stuff and you sell stuff and you want to keep some of the profit in the middle, um, as you go through and you want to make sure your cash flow is good and we've borrowed lots of good examples from.
[00:16:30] You know, um, one of our double-glazing client, we use their, um, cash collection methodology with most of our clients in financial services now, because they've got some really good ideas about how to get money out of people. Um, so it's, it's when we're having these conversations, they're like, well, you know, nobody knows my better business, better than me.
[00:16:48] Like, well, no, you know how to do it, but you don't know how it really works underneath the skin. And we do, you know, that's, that's the conversation you have to be quite again. It's back to confidence. You have to be quite confident that you do. [00:17:00] Um, and at the start, the conversation was, this is the theory I've read.
[00:17:04] Does this apply? Whereas now it's a bit more like we've done this for 10 years. We know what we're talking about it, you know, you can like it, you don't have to, you know, if you want to, you know, if you want to work together then great. If you don't then fine, you know, you've got two competitors and we'll go and talk to one of them then.
[00:17:22] So, you know, that's the, um, that's, that's that conversation where. It is difficult and it's not an easy sell because most of the release paying, you know, three grand a year for an annual set of accounts. And we end up charging 20 and they're like, well, what am I getting for my 17 grand? And I said, I don't know, but you'll be more profitable, you know, that's that's um, because I don't know until I know, you know,
[00:17:51] Paul Shrimpling: [00:17:51] So that leap from three K to 20 K what am I getting from the money?
[00:17:54] Is that the most comes to that is, I don't know.
[00:17:58] Luke Smith: [00:17:58] Yeah. I mean, it's just probably a terrible [00:18:00] response, but, um, you know, th that, that is the risk. It's like, you know, if you're a million quid and I can find your 2%, we've got your money back. Yeah. So I've never found, not found 2%. Okay. And that's sort of the, that's the problem.
[00:18:15] That's why the turnover has to be relatively high. Because the margin of error and the sensitivity of that 2% is, uh, you know, uh, most of the time you have a pricing conversation, which is 6% and you've done three years fees. So it's not, it's not massively difficult to justify your existence for the first couple of years.
[00:18:33] Yeah. It's a, you know, so. There are three or four clients. Who've been with us since 2012 and they moved off, but we, we encourage them to move away from the monthly meetings to quarterly meetings. And, um, because it's, it is difficult to continue to justify that sort of level of, of value that regularly.
[00:18:53] But for the first five years there's shitloads to do so. Um, you know, there's lots of things that you can work on [00:19:00] with them. And is there a, is
[00:19:02] Paul Shrimpling: [00:19:02] there a running order in terms of the things that you naturally go
[00:19:05] Luke Smith: [00:19:05] to? Yeah, so pricing is always terrible, but the, the first stage is the chart of accounts. So. Um, the previous accountant, usually hasn't bothered to put anything in cost of sales.
[00:19:16] That's the true cost of sales. And what you find is that, um, getting really granular and cost of sales makes life a lot easier for everybody because clients say they can't put their prices up until you explained to them that the motor vehicles cost as a cost of sale. They're not including it in their pricing.
[00:19:35] So, um, if you really work hard on what true cost of sales is unused. Classes or tracking categories, you suddenly have visibility that they've never had before. And then at that point, you work on, you know, your pricing, you work on, um, cost and it's sort of the working capital cycle, um, in terms of cash flow.
[00:19:57] Deposits everybody. I argue normally [00:20:00] for three to six months with people about taking deposits, then they do it. And then nine months later they say, why didn't we do this 20 years ago? Like, yeah, agreed. So there's, there's a number of, um, business model changes that we introduce over the first 12 months that always ended up generating more cash and more profit for the business.
[00:20:20] Paul Shrimpling: [00:20:20] And is it the cash or the profit that tends to make the business owners happier? We w
[00:20:24] Luke Smith: [00:20:24] you know, is it that, yeah. And again, it's really difficult. It's just, they just feel better. And so, you know, invited to weddings, invited to golf and lunch and everything all the time. And it's. Is that good for you to really get to know you that?
[00:20:39] Yeah. Yeah. I mean, uh, you know, as you know, um, but, um, it's no Epic. You, you have to like them because you do become their go-to. I mean, you know, one of them, um, Said, well, I don't even tell my wife this stuff. So, you know, it does get quite in detail, the relation, you have to be ready to get [00:21:00] really involved in that in their lives and their businesses.
[00:21:03] Paul Shrimpling: [00:21:03] though you're talking, you know, cost of sales, pricing, working capital, how, how does it get so personal if you delving into what is true accountancy territory?
[00:21:13] Luke Smith: [00:21:13] Well, they've never, they've never had anyone to share this information with, you know, unless, unless the business is up at five or 6 million, there isn't really another grownup in the building with them.
[00:21:22] There's, there's just them. Who's, who's running it and is stressed. And because of the relationship that, that you've got in the, you can't tell anybody. Yeah. Our success is directly linked to theirs in terms of, if they're not successful, we'll lose their fees. Um, the trust is, is very, very strong to the point where actually a couple of them are selling them and we we're buying them businesses.
[00:21:46] So, you know, there there's a there's there's scale through acquisition of clients rather than growth in the accounts you've burned now. So, um, you know, that's the next game.
[00:21:59] Paul Shrimpling: [00:21:59] So, [00:22:00] um, that's unusual too. I guess I'm not too many accounts. Films are out there, you know, grabbing their clients and then buying them.
[00:22:06] Wouldn't it be better to buy them?
[00:22:08] Luke Smith: [00:22:08] Well, yeah. I mean, you know, there's enough money, so it's not, I'm not that bothered. Ultimately, as you know, Paul, I'm going to be chief minister and own the Island, so yeah. It's a, there's a, there's a journey. There's a journey, but I'm not too bothered if everybody wins throughout.
[00:22:26] Paul Shrimpling: [00:22:26] If anyone thinks Link's joking about when the chief minister on that Jersey,
[00:22:30] Luke Smith: [00:22:30] he's not all. Anyway,
[00:22:37] let's go back to Brendan's
[00:22:39] Paul Shrimpling: [00:22:39] conversation on, on, on winning clients. So if I can go back in time first, so you, you, you, you split with Andy and you took, you know, five or six clients with you. That weren't advisory plan. So then you win advisory fees. Is that deliberate?
[00:22:54] Luke Smith: [00:22:54] Uh, well, they weren't advisory because we didn't, I didn't know what to talk about or what to [00:23:00] do, um, very quickly after reading.
[00:23:03] Um, so everything by Ron Baker and, um, a bit more by Paul and then a load of Michael Gerber stuff, um, that then became quite easy to say, well, you know what? This process. You're only making 28 cents. Yes, pricing's an issue, but where is where's the leakage in the costs and starting to talk to people a bit more about linking the process to the profitability.
[00:23:31] Um, and, um, and obviously they liked that they liked having those conversations. They liked having someone else to blame operational changes on existing clients that you
[00:23:43] Paul Shrimpling: [00:23:43] don't already
[00:23:44] Luke Smith: [00:23:44] basically lots of work. I sort of said, you know, we're doing all this for you, but. Can we, can we sit down together once a month, once a quarter, turn guys through everything and work out what's changed.
[00:23:54] And they were like, well, we'd already had it. You know, they'd already been around a while. So they trusted me. [00:24:00] Um, and, um, I said yes. You know? Yeah.
[00:24:05] Paul Shrimpling: [00:24:05] And then, uh, so let's, let's now talk about where I think Brendan's going is the next one. How, how did you, when the next client or the next two or three? If that's easier.
[00:24:17] Luke Smith: [00:24:17] yeah, yeah. The first, the burst for new VSD clients. Paul Dunn came home to Jersey and we got 110 businesses in the room. And 21 signed up, which, uh, to, uh, to a one page plan, business planning session, we got four VFD clients out of that. So, so that seminar really sort of set us off for the next year.
[00:24:40] Um, and then after that, and let me just start with that down the list. So that was, that was that year. And then a couple of people I used to work with moved business, and once it's, uh, wanted to bring us on, um, a [00:25:00] couple of times I've. Um, pretended to want services from people, um, and then started to talk about what we do and they've been interested and that's worked quite well.
[00:25:09] So, um, we want to move property or we want to do an event or we want to, you know, whatever. Um, they're like, Oh, what do you guys do? And we're like, Oh, this is what we do, you know? And so that's worked out quite well. Um, but that was a
[00:25:23] Paul Shrimpling: [00:25:23] deliberate sort of Trojan horse strategy.
[00:25:26] Luke Smith: [00:25:26] Sammy Sammy can't hurt, not hurt.
[00:25:29] Um, and, um, we've never done any marketing or advertising. That's really works. Um, I've never put any. Sort of time or effort in, you know, taking on a new client is quite significant job. So when we only had sort of five people that was quite challenging to, to bring someone on, because the quality of what was coming across was so poor.
[00:25:52] Um, can we take probably two months to re-engineer the chart of accounts and the tracking categories into the sort [00:26:00] of new shape that actually has some value and actually just getting people up to date most of the time then. Obviously nine months behind on, on numbers because previous accountant set track.
[00:26:12] Um, so, and then we did start, see, we have had a few clients through, through reputation, um, but mostly it's been playing golf with a client. Who's got a mate who owns a business or, um, It jazzy business is a local quango for, um, business growth. And, um, they've been quite supportive of those sorts of clients that mainly focused on startups.
[00:26:41] If some were quite well known for, for turning a decent turnover loss-making business into a decent profit and helping sell it. So it doesn't that 10 or 11 times now with turns one and a half million of turnover. And, um, 200,000 of losses into 1.2 [00:27:00] million of turnover in 300,000 of profit, um, for sale. So there's a tried and tested routine to look at costs, reorganize the business, make a profit.
[00:27:11] And then with the successful guys that come in, it's really about, um, how do we go from where we are to something much bigger? And helping them scale. So, um, that there's this two bits
[00:27:27] Paul Shrimpling: [00:27:27] just listened to a group of accountants and myself grill Luke on the details of his advisory firm. If you want to hear the second part of this discussion with Luke, please go to humanize the numbers.online and download yourself a copy of the second part of this discussion. You'll find more valuable discussions with the leaders of ambitious accounting firms at humanized, the numbers.online, you can also sign up to be notified each time a new podcast is I made available this [00:28:00] podcast series humanized.
Overview of Purpose
How are Purpose's clients stronger?
What roles do Purpose's staff take?
Making the transition into advisory work
How is your advice credible?
What am I getting for my money?
How does it get so personal?
Winning advisory fees
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