How do you define in your firm the concept of real-time accounting?
And is it really meaningful?
In this discussion with Stefan Barrett of Bee Motion, an accountancy firm in Stockport, Manchester, you'll hear Stefan share his insights around what real-time accounting means to him and how he makes it valuable to his clients.
"It scares me that as we do progress with our tech -and we've become very tech savvy - is that I'm constantly thinking I don't wanna lose the human touch...
"My focus point is making sure that the client gets a good job, but using tech internally to show that externally we're still human.
"We never want to lose that human touch because the minute we lose the human touch, I've lost the focus on the core values of Bee Motion "
Connect with Stefan
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TRANSCRIPT - unedited
Paul Shrimpling: [00:00:00] Welcome to the humanize, the numbers podcast, series leaders, managers, and owners of ambitious accounting firms, sharing insight, successes, and issues that will challenge you and connect you and your firm to the ways and means of transforming your firms results.
Stefan Barratt: [00:00:21] Yeah. It scares me that as we do progress with our tech and we've become very tech savvy, is that I'm constantly thinking I don't wanna lose the human, the human touch.
We, we never want to lose that human touch because the minute we lose the human touch, I've lost the focus on the core values of B motion.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:00:37] How do you define in your firm the concept of real time accounting? And is, is it really meaningful? Well, in this discussion with Stephen Barrett of B motion and accountancy firm in Stockport, you'll hear Steph and share his insights around what real-time accounting means to him and how he makes it valuable to his clients.
Let's go to that podcast
Stefan Barratt: [00:00:58] now. Hello, my name is Stephan Barra and I'm founder of beam ocean. I basically founded it in 2015 and starting from a mom's courage basically. So had a laptop. So the laptop on left employment and just went for it. So yeah, I started when I was Watts roundabout 25, 26, I did a good eight, nine years.
And employment went from working for a child accountancy process, then went into industry. And then when I set myself up, so I kind of like bring a little bit of industry, a little bit of practice and then make it into B motion. I've got so I'm 32 now I've got a wife, Sally, I've got a little girl called US-made and I love snowboarding.
I love going to the gym. Scuba diving you name it. I kind of have a bit of a, a bit of adrenaline junkie. So I like to relate to that. I like to I like to jump out the plane here and there, or do flying lessons, even though I've got fear of Heights, probably with a parachute though. We have a parachute, indeed.
Yeah, just, it
Paul Shrimpling: [00:01:58] tends to
Stefan Barratt: [00:01:58] help. It tends to help how old you has to be 19 months. 1919 months old. My wife she's Arabic she's from the middle east. So, which is great. Cause just means bless her. She obviously being so young, Sally only speaks Arabic to her. I only speak English or as best English as an account.
And so she understands what you expect. And so now she, she does understand and then speak both Arabic and English, which is great for her future. Brilliant. So yeah. Yeah. That's a little bit about also with the motion. Yeah. So yeah. We were a team of eight now. And like I said, it started a male from my mom's garage and then just built it from there.
Really. So why did you set it? Oh, I want to, I've always wanted, so for myself I've been very entrepreneurial, but I don't always throw that I'm an entrepreneurial word out there because I don't like to classify myself as an entrepreneur, but I've got that mindset of wanting to kind of be creative and, you know, and do things for myself.
So And I was Al I've always been good with numbers and good with like the business sense and, and, you know, I don't classify, classify myself as an accountant. I see myself as a business owner. Yes, I am an accountant, but I am a business owner. And because I service other business owners, I feel like I am a business person.
Hmm. To do that too much, the client. So, yeah. So what I tend to do is I tend to add the commercial spin. Onto the accounts that we're creating. So we don't just bring numbers to the table. I look at a set of accounts. I pretend I'm not business owner. And I go, what can I make it make a difference to this client?
And what can I bring to the table? And there's, there's various examples that I could, I could give you. To how many clients have you got? Stefan? We've got 400 and around about 450 now. So it started with a hundred for a couple of friends that I did it for. Never spent a penny on advertising, just because word of mouth was just, it's just, it's just important to us.
You know, we've got 90 ish, Google reviews or five star, which is, which is really good.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:03:55] Yeah. And do that, do those Google
Stefan Barratt: [00:03:58] reviews actually work? Do they pay off for you? I don't know, they both, they must be. I don't, I don't, to be honest, I don't know. Advertising and marketing is probably my weak point to be honest, because I just let it go.
Let's stop there. Yeah,
Paul Shrimpling: [00:04:13] let's start there. So my marketing appetite is my weak point, but in eight years you've gone from zero to 415 clients. Yes.
Stefan Barratt: [00:04:18] Yeah. But naturally naturally grown. But I think that is appropriate only because of what we bring to the table for our clients. All right. So
Paul Shrimpling: [00:04:27] is that then?
So is it, you bring it to the table for your clients?
Stefan Barratt: [00:04:30] So we, I mean, it's, it's changed over the, over the time of when we first started up to now, now he's more tech streamlined in making the client's life easier, let the client do what they do best, and we're just basically behind them. You know, and, and I always use this analogy is like we're behind them sweeping up.
So we're making sure that, you know, the staying compliant, but we're also getting the information that they need on a, on a, on a timely basis when it was at the beginning. I think to be honest, I think it was just, obviously I was just selling myself. So I was just being myself. I was very level, kind of level headed and very much kind of a lot of people's.
Expectations of seeing their counseling is like, kind of seeing the solicitor, oh, I've got to wear a suit. I've got to be this prim and proper person and kind of, I'm scared of the accounts. And, but, and I don't know what taxes, they don't understand it, but I come at a level where. You know what, we're all the same.
I, you know, I bring my expertise to the table and I'm going to explain it to you, my client, eh, as, as kind of dummy as possible to put the client's mind at ease, the amount of times the client says, oh, the weight's off my shoulder. This is so good. You know, I'm going to leave out. I'm going to leave here.
Like, you know, really happy. And we hear that all the time because we, we essentially take the burden off them. We run it through our systems. It'd be motion. And yes, we are very system driven or for all, it's all about the client interaction at the very early stages, wherever we're going through a proposal or wherever we're going outside in the accounts, or whether we're in the middle doing the monthly management information.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:05:59] Right. Okay. So if we just dive into the 450 clients, how many of those 415 a
Stefan Barratt: [00:06:05] businesses, we have a roundabout, 120, 130 limited companies of which around about 80 of aren't registered. A lot of them have obviously directors and then a lot of sole traders partnerships predominantly we have a lot of sole traders, but what we've found as well as back in the days of 2015, 16, it was very sole trader driven and then us.
Because we took on businesses that returning over at very little, just starting out businesses. And then they soon transitioned into limited companies, you know, as in, when it was right for them, whether it was for tax efficiencies, whether it's for kind of bringing things in assets, creating group structures, whatever it may be, we saw, we obviously were very timely with them.
So as, and when they needed to incorporate entities. So the, so we still got clients now that come on board as sole traders, they go for the realms of emotion that business picked. So we incorporate an Institute and then obviously they got through the. Th th that we call it the fat registry, the fats B motion process, which is where we really concentrate on our efficiencies and getting information to our clients on a monthly basis.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:07:10] Right. Okay. So so you've mentioned a number of things. Are there efficiencies and systems with that client focus? Yes. Where's the, where's the, where's the humanity in that? Where's the, you know, this is, I, I hear you, you're saying all about the client, but ultimately with 450 clients, you know, 80 VAT, 130 Unlimited's it's gotta be systems driven, but indeed, how does that translate itself into being something which means something.
Human. That's valuable to your clients in a human way, rather than just all of that said
Stefan Barratt: [00:07:38] box tags. So there's various, various ways that we try and, you know, human make it more human. So. On a monthly basis. We, we obviously we'll do the quarterly complaints for, for, for our part registered clients. What we did is we, we set that instead of just could play with the quarterly but returns, we'll turn it into flair and then we'll have monthly reviews as to how their business is doing what we can essentially cut down on for them, from their financial perspective.
How can we grow that business? And how can we help them grow their business from not just from a financial perspective, but from like a, a coaching perspective, what spit, and this is where I come in, how can I take control of that business and see what could I do to help them? For example, we've got a client, that's got a, a car dealership and he was renting the pitch that he was on.
So I said to him, right, this is what you need to do if this is what way you want to go. So we've had many, many charts. It's very ambitious. Why are you renting the premises that you're on villain that you're on? How about that? We look at purchasing it and you said purchase and I've got no chance. And so I said, right.
Okay. Let's be, let's speak to my mortgage. Go, let's see what requirements are needed. Let's look at equity on your balance sheet. Let's put projection for in a year's time to meet that equity, to give you enough equity in your business to borrow off the back of that, to buy the London a year later, he hit the equity that we needed and he bought the London he's got, and he's absolutely absolutely loving it.
And he blamed you for that. Yeah. And he blames me for since. Yeah. He blames me for making him work hard, seven him with debt, but actually, yeah, he's done well. He owns some property. He owns that. The one that he's got the car sales on. So instead of paying rent, he he's kind of, you know, move forward and increase the equity in his business.
So equity is a focus point for me. If a business for me, if a business builds, well, it needs to increase its equity year on year. You know, it's not just the sole kind of objective there's offer objects is the, of one that is very important to me. And for me and my clients, some clients want you to just plot along year on year and just have an easy life.
That's absolutely fine with me. Yeah. But
Paul Shrimpling: [00:09:38] presumably those clients don't want a monthly service from you. It's definitely the,
Stefan Barratt: [00:09:43] the dope, but they still get that. They still get that because what we've managed to do with money is to automate the monthly management information. We've using Sage accounting and Sage payroll that automation has created.
Obviously there's a lot of time at the beginning, but we've managed to automate it that well, we can give reports and on a monthly basis free of charge. But what we also do is, and it's great accountants, so to speak in the old terms or that just for compliance and the business owner goes to the accountant and says, What's this number.
What's not number how, you know, what's this task and why is it? Why is it this? But what I do is I put, and especially the clients that want to do well over their own business. I put the emphasis on the client to own their numbers. And by me giving them the capabilities of having real time information with Sage accounts and they can view the reports at any time and then to go through all the numbers.
So I'm putting the emphasis on the client to have ownership of that numbers. And then that's where the T that's, where it's like a teamwork and how we're business partners. Cause I want the client to come back and challenge numbers, but then I also want to challenge the client as well, to make sure that they get the information to us in a timely manner.
So it's a, it's a two way relationship. Yeah.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:10:53] Yeah. Yeah. But it's interesting to pick up on the word challenge, which is something I'm passionate about on the grounds that, you know, we, we set out to challenge accounts to a degree, this podcast about challenge, the way firms who are listening to this thinking and challenge what they're doing so that they go away and do it in a better way, a little bit like you car dealership went away and did it in a better way.
Stefan Barratt: [00:11:10] I'm always setting challenges for my clients. And I think that that's important. It's next challenge is to double is that quick. Which has gone away. And we actually, funnily enough, had a chat yesterday and he says, I'm an early day. And I said, no, go away and work harder. And he just laughed, oh, the phone died on a fault.
This is great. You know, I'm making an impact on these people's lives. Yeah.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:11:29] Yeah. Yeah. So, so you're delivering. So how many of you, 130 limited companies are getting monthly
Stefan Barratt: [00:11:35] reports at the fact registered clients are on about 8, 6 78 to the 80 of the 80 Lamar. All
Paul Shrimpling: [00:11:40] right. And you're not technically charging them for those reports because they're oppressive important at, of stage.
Stefan Barratt: [00:11:45] We've managed to automate that well, because what we do is we employ predominantly most of our staff that are There are training accounts and surge generation sets and millennials. So the come from a very tech based background. So we use, I kind of obviously let our stuff Do what they do best, you know, most of them are gamers that work at vMotion.
So that absolutely into tech, like w for example, I mean, this is the worst. The, the kind of the way we work at vMotion is that everyone's on the same level. So just because I'm owner doesn't mean that anyone's lesser or more, we all do the same. We all have a routine. I wash the pots twice a week. Everyone else watches the pots once a week.
It's that kind of like stunts that I say and emotional emotion. So when when an employee comes to the table, it comes on board in the interview, I say, right, what you're going to bring to the table? You know, now what can, what, what can you, what's your experience? Like what can you bring to the table different to everyone else?
So for example, Nathan that's came on board, he's a gamer. He came on board and said, right, what we need is gaming monitors. So it's like gave me monitors, like what start Google. And then it's these 1.2 wide screens that curve see them on your website. And I was like, well, okay, this is okay. Let me buy one.
Let me try it out. And two 50 pounds. So not, not the lightest of investments gave her a go two weeks later or underwear seven or eight. Everyone's not at home because why? Because it makes life easier for the employee for, for the team. It makes it better from just a workflow perspective. If we've got kind of Sage up, go proposal decks, you know, whichever it may be, what application.
We can just use everything at one time. So instead of closing it and opening and closing and opening, I mean, my, my screens, I've got three screens on my monitor and then I've got two on my laptop, one on the base, one on the front, so then I can have my laptop. So my laptop open viewing outlook view in WhatsApp.
So then that's my kind of communication for the day. And then I've got my, obviously my, my three applications work as well. Life's easier. And to be honest, I worked out a rough calculation. I was working. More efficient and it paid for itself. At my charge rate, obviously paid for myself within a matter of about a week, week and a half, two weeks.
It was just, it was just so much more slicker. And then the guys that paid for themselves, you know, for several longer time, but I'm very much into that. It doesn't matter what the cost is, invest in your own stuff, you know? And like, I always say as well with the staff, bring something to the table, anything.
Do you know what I mean? Like for example, Nathan said, why don't we send happy birthday? E-cards to people. I was like, okay. Yeah. So he put it in sensor, our practice management system, ultimately, obviously, and it just automatically goes out. So whenever, whenever it's the client's birthday sends it out and it just puts a smile on the face.
They might reply to me when we got back saying really appreciate that. Thank you. It's just a rule that we set and it just falls in the line of the motions kind of tech.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:14:32] Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So you've used the tech to humanize something around as something as simple as a birthday card.
Stefan Barratt: [00:14:37] That's one simple example of hundreds of things that we do, right.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:14:43] you've got this obviously clear passion for systematize it, make it repeating it, make it a bit shorter, make it
Stefan Barratt: [00:14:49] automatic. If, if I have to think and do a job twice, that's not good. I do a job once. Systemize it delegate it. Don't. Yeah. And then I can move on to the next thing, because I constantly want to think about what I can do for my clients.
How can I make my client's lives easier, but I have to systemize it. I have to automate it. Otherwise I'd be running around like headless chicken, repeating my repeating my daily tasks, but not just be my stuff would also be repeating the daily tasks. So that's probably why. And then
Paul Shrimpling: [00:15:16] that can be demoralizing cards.
If you do doing the same thing day in, day out, it can be okay. So let me, let me pick up on something because lots of firms talk about real-time accounting
Stefan Barratt: [00:15:25] and and it's not. Yeah, it's
Paul Shrimpling: [00:15:28] not real time. So explain to me what you mean by real time reporting or real-time accounting. So
Stefan Barratt: [00:15:34] it's how far you take real time.
Cause a lot of accountants will sit there and do daily bookkeeping and I don't feel daily bookkeeping is necessary for our client base, but our client base turnover 2 million and under. So you've got to think about that. If the client's turning over to over 2 million, they probably should have an in-house bookkeeper anyway.
So but what we do is we, we, we're a Sage on the practice. All our clients come on board. We, we instantly give them a Sage application if they don't want Sage and they want the likes of Xero and QuickBooks, we'd move them up and put them through an of send them over to another accountant. You're okay.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:16:10] committed to, to using one bookkeeping system. So yeah,
Stefan Barratt: [00:16:13] what's the point of being Jack of all trades and master of none. We are expertise and Sage and it works for us because, because we can systemize everything in one conveyor belt. The conveyor belt is systemized at the claims of see, but the human stuff that comes off, that the client sees and knows.
Wow, fantastic. Yeah. So, yeah, going back for all us, we provide real-time information, but we provide on a monthly basis. We don't, we have asked clients if they require on a daily basis and they would just said, what's the point we just paid, but paying too much information that's on a daily basis.
What's the point? You know, so we, we provide the information on a monthly basis. We put the emphasis on the client to give us the information in a timely manner. And then what we then do is prepare the bookkeeping. We have debtors and creditors letters that we send over to the, to the clients every, every month.
What we do is working day one of the following month, we request information. Nine times out of 10, most of the information's people's anyway, because the likes of DExT putting all the purchase invoices on using Sage sales invoices, that's already on, we've got the bank account links on Sage to the actual bank account.
So the bank feeds on. So everything's that we just got the few, few, little struggling things that we need to catch up on. And then by working day five, then everyone gets their MRI. And then once they've got that management information, then we can, if they need us to talk through with them. But generally speaking, a lot of them know the numbers.
Very well anyway, so, and then we'll obviously have that chat with them and then go from there. So the MAs are basic package. That's free of charged cause it's just a bolt on service. And then we go, well, it's not free of
Paul Shrimpling: [00:17:46] charges. It's actually part of the service.
Stefan Barratt: [00:17:49] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. You say it's not free of charge.
It's a weird one because we've just offered it to our clients free of charge. So any new client that comes on board now? It would be part of the service, but any historic clients, it's a free of charge service, but I can see where you're coming from. Completely agree. Yeah.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:18:06] I'm always wary that. The, the use of the word free, everyone really knows that they're not getting something for free.
They're paying for it in some way, shape or form. So I'm always a little bit skeptical Stephan about the word free. Yeah, of course. As a, is a trusted advisor. If you sell, you, get that free of charge, the business owners going, no, I don't. Beyond. Cause we all know, you know, your Bible and get one for, right?
Stefan Barratt: [00:18:27] Yeah. We don't actually charge for it though, because it's, you know, because we essentially short, but I don't feel the need to, because we've all seen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And, and, and it's
Paul Shrimpling: [00:18:37] Would you deliver the MRI without charging anything to that client?
Stefan Barratt: [00:18:42] We do. Yeah, because we have clients who don't pay you anything.
Oh, sorry. No, no, but we charge the client for raising that for obviously the transactions, which we can come onto the real time and real time charging that we do. So to answer your nutshell, yes. It's not a free of charge service for future clients, but it certainly is going to store it. Right. But it, or,
Paul Shrimpling: [00:19:04] or the language would be it's part of the service you pay.
Stefan Barratt: [00:19:07] Yes. I agree with that. And I, you know,
Paul Shrimpling: [00:19:09] you play with it as you see, but I've got this thing about, and accountants, you know, they hold a position of trusted advisor. So if they say anything or do anything that takes them away from trusted advisor, then it's actually detracting and deteriorating the relationship.
And so when you say you're getting something for free, when actually it's part of what you're paying for.
Stefan Barratt: [00:19:28] Yeah. Maybe we should start to charge him for it. That. Well
Paul Shrimpling: [00:19:32] there is there is a relatively well acknowledged state, which goes something like people don't value that,
Stefan Barratt: [00:19:37] that they don't pay for.
Indeed. Yes, absolutely. And
Paul Shrimpling: [00:19:41] so it's it's so if we were having a consulting session, I would be definitely wanting to pursue that,
Because value it's it's, what's, where's the value. If there's value in it, therefore you've earned the right to a. Price for it. Yes. So if the client has got a perceived value, they partly aren't comfortable with not paying for
Stefan Barratt: [00:20:02] Yeah, yeah, yeah, of course.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:20:04] And obviously there's value in the reports, but there's far more value in the discussion about the regionals. And so there's two, there's two price points, one around the discussion. And if that discussion then results in decisions, actions, and accountability, it's probably got more value in it.
And therefore. You could arguably should arguably charge
Stefan Barratt: [00:20:22] more. Indeed. Yeah. Very true. Very true. So, and so it's, it's understanding
Paul Shrimpling: [00:20:26] the client's perception of value and free. It doesn't it, you know, everyone likes to bargain, don't get me wrong, but they don't come to you Stephan. Cause they want to
Stefan Barratt: [00:20:37] Do they see because you really good at what you're doing? Absolutely. Yeah. So I'd just be very wary
Paul Shrimpling: [00:20:42] of that word free, very wary and trusted advisor
Stefan Barratt: [00:20:45] environment anyway. Yeah. So that's our basic package that we offer. And then we've got the management accounts pack package, which then is additional cost because it's more of a premium, which is then we we charge them for obviously the.
At the management actual accounts where we're, you know, sitting down with a client, we're making a bespoke KPIs for them. And then we've been adjusting the accounts, you know, the usual boring stuff, corporations, such provisions, different income, et cetera, prepayments accruals and blah, blah, blah. And so, yeah, that's like the more premium package that we offer.
But a lot of our clients, you know, like the, the ma so they're my position. So because it's just not for them to then obviously make businesses, make that personal decisions on. Yes.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:21:27] Yes. So it's not time it's monthly, but it's day five of the month. I get to see my, if I was a client, he goes, I get to see the the, the, the detailed management information around the, the core, the core of my business.
But if I wanted deeper numbers, in terms of full-blown management accounts, balance sheet, profit loss tax calculation, then that would be an extra service. If I want to have a conversation with you around those numbers, that's got an additional fee attached
Stefan Barratt: [00:21:51] to it as it it's not all that's part and parcel.
Of the management accounts serving indeed. Yeah, indeed. So it management information. We have a discussion. There's no charge management accounts. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So this announced a great service that we provide. So the management accounts, it's an additional charging for that. We don't need to I'm content I'm content with the equity that we create.
Do I want to squeeze as much more profit and make more profit off our clients? Now what's the, what's the point? Just because I got a big, a bit bigger about the car. I got to pick her up the equity. What I want is I want the play to be happy. They're getting a quality .
Paul Shrimpling: [00:22:32] Yeah. Yeah. All credit. So value for money.
Stefan Barratt: [00:22:34] Absolutely. You don't have to be honest and fair, but it also comes on to our pricing structure that we have in place as well. So like I say, a lot of the counselors do charge by the subscription based billing. Which I completely disagree with we charge. But when I say real time, we charged by real time.
So as, and when a purchase invoice has been put on decks, we paid, we charged for it as a sales invoices, getting raised by the client we charged for it. And as a bank transactions actually happen in real time, we charge for that.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:23:03] Well, so
Stefan Barratt: [00:23:05] as it happens so what, what we do is we, as we compile that monthly bookkeeping and then complete that quarterly VAT return, we charge for it as it happens, but we invoice it on a quarterly basis.
So we charge for real time transactions, but we're not going to invoice the client daily. So we imagine you're spending today has an invoice. Hence the question
So it's real time we charged for it on a quarterly basis. So, and the main thing for this is let's go back to the subscription based billing. I'm going to counseling a client comes on board. They estimate their transactions. We set up a fee of 200 a month. Great. Yeah, that's all included. Great. I woke up the building.
My transactions increased by four, but then we've approved. We've agreed that the transactions are going to be in this area. So then three months down the line, when when we have to do a review, because go proposal state, you review every three and 12 months. But, you know, I mean, they say it, you should review every three months, but the practicality of checking everyone's financials every three months is just not doable.
So a lot of accountants will let check every year. So then the client walks out the building they've got full times, most transactions, a year passes. They've been paying X amount per month. You look back and go, wow, it was massively undercharged here. So what can be, rate's been shot to pieces yet? So what I do, I say we set a price structure at the beginning.
It self reviews itself everyday because it's based on real time transactions. So as in, when we complete a VAT return, we check how many purchase invoice has gone through the system. How many sales, invoices, how many bank, how many credit cards, how many cash transactions have occurred? You name it. So if you pay for some funny cash, you pay for it.
So all then transactions that transpire. And the reason being for this as a business goes up in transactions, generally, meaning that that could be busier. They're creating more turnover. They need more assistance from their counsel. I'm on subscription-based billing and the accountant is going well, this is a 200% job.
I can only give the relevant resources for that price without reviewing it, but I can only review it every 12 months where I go. This person is doing really well. We can see this in real time. George, you spend more time on that. We'll get paid in real time. So actually transactions go up. We follow with our resources and our fee structure increases.
So the clot from the client's perspective, they go, well, I've made more money because I've had more transactions. I've got most of it going on and I'm happy to pay the extra that you need me to do because of the resources that I need from you. As the business goes down, we follow suit and go down. So I, so our fee structure goes up when the business needs us and goes down when the business doesn't need us for me.
That's revolutionary and we make a fortune from that, which is why I say I don't, I wouldn't want to charge for the MIT. It's all wrapped up in this model that I've created. Right. But, but
Paul Shrimpling: [00:26:00] may as a client, I don't know what you're going to charge me until
Stefan Barratt: [00:26:03] I get to the end of the quarter. So incorrect. So go proposal.
We, we use go proposal. We sit down with their client and we go through the estimated transactions. So we basically say if your purchasing voices is going to be between 50 and a hundred, is this price, sales, this price bank, this price. And if it goes over it. It's X amount per transaction. So we stay in every single person within B motion pays the same rate per transaction.
Not one person gets a better rate. Not one person gets a lower ratio. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But ultimately,
Paul Shrimpling: [00:26:33] Steph, I'm just being, maybe I'm being a bit pedantic here. So I could work it out what I'm going to pay, but I'm not going to. So, I don't really know what I'm going to get charged until I get to the end of the quarter when all the transactions and I'll accept that, you know, I've got to pay for what I've had, but I don't know
Stefan Barratt: [00:26:47] what that's going to be.
Really. Yeah. If you take out the management management accounts package that we accrue that cost, so you do know it on a monthly basis, but if you see your monthly management accounts, are you expected to turn over 10 K but you've turned off 30 K, which surely you expect your accounts if he'd score Charlie well If
Paul Shrimpling: [00:27:04] you've communicated to me and I've come on board with that model, then I'll be cool with that.
Yeah. You've set the expectations. Haven't
Stefan Barratt: [00:27:11] you? Correct? So, yeah. And the good thing is with this, I've not got scope creep. You know, I, if I, if a client comes on board and says to turn over 10 K and then comes back a year later and turns over 3 million or be excessive, but turns over, say 200 K to 200 K.
Right? Okay. We've we've, we've got scope Creek there. And if I'm employing staff, I could only see scope creep and I employ, well there's 1, 2, 3. There's there's, we've got mortgage advisor and an IFA and then myself and then the rest of the trainee is accountants. So if I can see the problem now we're such a small firm, how affirms that employ 20, 30, 40 dealing with the scope.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's crazy. Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is my way of working. And like I say, no of it. I think in the UK works this way. It works well because I've managed to generate and it, and it generates an extra a hundred K equity per year. And that's that the business doesn't use. So you see my accounts go up a hundred K a year.
Cause that's the,
that's basically the money that we don't need because of this business model that we've created.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:28:16] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So what's the, I just want to get a handle on what the so you've got 80 year of that clients. Some of them are just taking the EMI. I'm curious as to what the average fee is for those.
And then you've got those who are taking management accounts monthly. I'm curious as to what the average fee of those is. Have
Stefan Barratt: [00:28:31] you got any. Can you share what ranges? It ranges to be honest and give us the ranges, then it could range from a quarterly VAT return of say
three, the hundred above minimum to file the final turn based on real time information. We also charged real time for payroll as well. So if you employ that number of stuff, you pay for the extra number of stuff. So 300, 3 50, and then it could go up to maybe a thousand a quarter. But for, for the bat return.
So the way it works is we, we raise five invoices a year. So it might make a little bit more since we raised rolling one invoice for the fixed costs. So, which is year end compliance. And then we raised one invoice for each quarter and I'm not quoting. So we've got the transactions in real time. We've got the payroll and we've got this say subscription, also tag of subscription.
And then they've got submission fee. If that review will in fact submission fee. Yeah. Every client pays identical. Yeah.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:29:30] I'll look into one. Okay. So you've got, I'm not sure I've got clear, but you got some clients who were paying 300
Stefan Barratt: [00:29:36] a quarter. Well, it depended on the transactions and obviously it depends on whether they're cash in whether they are traditional VAT.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:29:44] Yeah. All right. So you've got some clients that 1200 quid a year and some at four
Stefan Barratt: [00:29:49] grand a year just for the quarterly. And then you've got your year and complaints work on that. And then, yeah.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:29:54] Okay. All right. All right.
Stefan Barratt: [00:29:57] You got a minimum for that? I mean, he went for that ACE. So if they're under 85 K threshold, yeah.
They 600 plus VAT per annum. So that under our first 1 0 5, if they're our first one or two, which is over 85 K again, we've set structure. If you're under your 1 0 5, if you're over, you went also, and we do that on a case by case basis. We'll. You know, if anyone is on the 85 cable wish to, or I feel the need that we'd need to do one or two, we will increase that.
And then the minimum for 1 0 2 is 800, but that's, that's the bare minimum plus VAT tax, et cetera.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:30:33] All right. Okay. Okay. So a minimum fee, sort of two grand
Stefan Barratt: [00:30:37] top end say general about, you're looking at about two to three K as an average, but I've never looked into it to be honest. Just because it's something that doesn't really, I've not got a KPI for that I've got various KPIs, but nothing for an average fee.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:30:51] and averages don't really mean a lot cause they don't drive any action. You know, it's having numbers that drive action. Isn't it that's that, that, that really matters. Fascinating. So,
Stefan Barratt: [00:30:57] Different isn't it?
Paul Shrimpling: [00:31:00] It is. But what's interesting about the conversation is where you're driving a model.
That's I think you're pursuing fairness for your clients.
Stefan Barratt: [00:31:08] Transparency. Yeah. Yeah.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:31:10] Transparency and fairness as a consequence. Yes. And you know, there's lots and lots of research staff in that point to the fact that if you've got a sense of fairness around what you're doing, you'll generate enthusiasm for what you're doing.
Yes. If there's any sense that the fairness goes down, the enthusiasm for what you're doing goes down and that, that applies to your team just as it does to your clients. So, you know, okay. Every, firm's got an example like your You can't do it. Who ends goes from renting to buying the, the, the, the plot light is working from and see, everyone's got a heat passionate client, but it's like, have you got a, how do you KPI enthusiasm?
And that's really hard, but can you see as is one of the goals and you know, there's another podcast with Steve Timmis in stoke. And and, and he was, he was all over this. And some of your clients, how do you build that then? And Steve was well, just hire enthusiastic people simple. So of course it's worth check.
It's worth checking out podcasts, that stuff. And it's that's. Oh, I
Stefan Barratt: [00:32:05] love it. Look it up. It's a good question as well though. How would you pull in, you know, how'd you, how'd, you kind of. I guess it's all in your recruitment process. It's employing the right staff and having the right people in the right seats.
But you know, I look at someone and I divide them into two sections. I've got commercial person. I've got tech. So my commercial people is very face to face client facing my tech behind the scenes doing all the tech stuff. So recently we've taken on two more members of staff. We're very focused on apprenticeship, so I only have not only, but I predominantly just employ apprenticeships and bring them right through the realms of work in the B motion way.
And obviously if I'm, if I'm employing. Millennials generation Z pets. Then obviously they bring a wealth of, of, of technology to the game. But again, I'll even split that and go, right. We need one tech, we need one commercial, we need another tech, we need another commercial. And it's just making that kind of fine balance.
But yeah, as well, if you was to ask me what I prefer, qualifications over someone that brings and theism to the table and passion drive, obviously, you know, my answer. Yeah. Yeah. So I, as you see, I'm passionate myself about what, what we do. We, you know, as B motion, we started from my mom's garage. I working on my own when it's a rented accommodation and you should have seen the office, it was in a warehouse and it just had stood walls of, of timber or up at gaps over the front.
I even had a tax inspection and they came in and they were just like, whoa, is that this isn't even an office. This is just a shed. It's just a shed. It was all I could afford at the time, because money was tired at the very beginning. I couldn't even afford a postage stationary. And the business cards I couldn't.
So my wife was like, oh, at the time, my girlfriend was like, well, I'll fork out some business cards for here. And now we've, we've obviously we've grown. We went from rented a car rented offices that didn't even have a window. And obviously like a shed that we moved down the hall and it was like, we've got winter, we've got radio.
This is like on real. We went from that to then having, you know, been very fortunate to buy our own office. And then we bought that. Put a deposit down, completely renovated it, tanked the seller and got the seller completely redone. And then we were fortunate to, to clear the mortgage off in about a year and a half as well.
So, which has got, so we've cleared the mortgage off and then we're just, we're just, you know, building up equity. But you know, my focus point is making sure that the client gets a good job, but using tech internally to show externally, we're still human.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:34:36] Yeah, it's nice line. So what does the future hold
Stefan Barratt: [00:34:38] Stephan, the future holds, I mean, my second question, we G we just did a funnily enough, we just had to put it on, put it on LinkedIn just before the post. We just did the Sage in acts. So the Sage Sage awards and the line that I kind of got just spun up with was the youth, the, the, what was it? The youth of today is the tech of tomorrow.
Cause I feel the future is very much, it's obviously going to be tech based slightly slight spinoff here. What's the future going to hold? I think the future is going to be very crypto driven. So cryptocurrencies. It's going to be a large, large change in the next couple of years. I mean, I think even the government to potential looking into know yeah.
Put they have cryptocurrencies illegal tender, possibly. I mean, I've just got, yeah, I got myself into crypto. We're going to start speaking to my AAT license, speaking to the insurance, just to see if we can start to assist him in the cryptocurrency world and obviously provided assistance in, in that respect because we're getting a fair few FFQ inquiries where you can't just ignore it.
You got one, you got to get three and you're thinking this is a, and then I've delved into it trending. Isn't it? All the books started looking at crypto. And then, yeah, so w I, I, I would like us to be at the, at the head of the crypto world as well. Right.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:35:57] What was actually and that's, that's really valuable and interesting is the you know, the, the, that youth of today's the tech of tomorrow.
I'm not entirely sure I understand what you mean there. So you've, you've hired these young youngsters. Indeed. You're training them on your apprentices so that during the apprenticeship, whether they're on the commercial side of the tech side, you accept it. You need to a balance of both, because we've got to have human conversations with our human clients.
Correct. But how, how can they turn into the tech of tomorrow? What's what's the, what's the
Stefan Barratt: [00:36:22] piece of there because it say 20, 30 years time when you've taught someone that, so it's never happened before, say, say 10 years ago, I obviously I could use a computer, but I could use computer, like. Like, because I could use a computer basics in comparison to what, how people use computers.
Now, for example, a question that I ask in my interview is have you ever mined Bitcoin, have you ever created, so have you ever built a computer? Have you ever created a software that attached to offer APIs and had an output from that you probably thinking, well, why would you ask the questions? Because that's the mindset that I want him to be emotion.
That's that started to be a tech interview by the way. Not a commercial. Yeah. So where am I going with this? The tech that the youth of today is the tech of tomorrow. I'm out of that because when I started using peers, I had a basic understanding like everyone else, the tech now is that advance. What's it going to be like in 20 years, it's going to be absolutely insane.
And I'm, I'm having these youngsters. These generations as these millennials that are getting taught, you know, through the apprenticeship, going on ACA ACA, whichever they may want to go onto and then letting them work in an environment that they really enjoy. And then what would they be in the future?
Something incredible. And I want to be part of that. I'm not part of that because I'm not that techie. Yeah. Yeah, no, I get that, but I cannot, I can absolutely be part of it with my we've been here. And you, you, if
Paul Shrimpling: [00:37:54] I've got you, right. You're, future-proofing your firm by hiring these people who are that tech savvy may look like a Luddite for one to the phrase, but that's fine because actually they're going to drive the tech of the future of your firm.
Indeed. What about the other side of it? Cause there's a, there's a very strong argument. Stephan in and around technology is going to do more and more of the group work in accountancy and there'd be less people actually need in it. But actually the one thing that technology will not do in the medium to long-term certainly the medium term, you know, 10 years, 15 years is the human interaction with
Stefan Barratt: [00:38:24] clients.
So, yeah. So
Paul Shrimpling: [00:38:26] what I'm looking for, what is it that how are you investing in the future of your business? If, if ultimately the technology
Stefan Barratt: [00:38:31] is going to do more and more,
Paul Shrimpling: [00:38:32] what we've got to do is invest in the human side of our business, as well as the tech. Yes. Yep. In fact, we've got to invest in books.
Fine. Yeah. So what is it about the the, where does the, how are you investing in the future of your business in and around the humanized stuff? Not the tech.
Stefan Barratt: [00:38:47] It's, it's a strange one because. I constantly work on the core of the emotion and the systemizing behind making the front facing better. So in an ideal world, I would like, I would like to have more meetings with clients on a more regular basis.
That is the end of the day. That's the human side of it that I feel like most accountants don't do. But then there's the time versus this kind of the, you know, th the time element does the client want to meet on a monthly basis? You know, we've created B motion to be, you know, this fantastic office that we all work in.
And when clients come down, you know, come to come to the office, they absolutely love it. And for me, it's all about the client experience. This is being transparent from a pricing point of view. I want their clients to go through an experience of being with emotion. I want them to feel like I'm part of emotion and.
And another thing as well, like I'll come back to it is that when a client comes on board, we set rules from the very beginning and it's quite strict that effort, if a client doesn't run that business and run it with passion and run it like they want to, and if they don't get back to like, for example, if we've got, we've had them all the time, a client comes on board.
They'll sign up on the spot. We won't hear from them for three of them, six months, nine months, because they just ignore us. They don't, they don't want to get back. Cause they just, they had you know, put the head in the sand. We have a two-part rule that if you, if we consistently, and it goes to any client, irrespective of who you are, if you don't, if we don't have enough information to file food to VAT returns, We will resign as your accountant with immediate facts you got, because if we're putting our time passionate and everything into your business, we expect that to be reciprocated printing.
If we don't get that back, I'm really sorry. You're not for us more partial answer that the local firm down the road, I'm quite savvy on that. And I've got rid of about 20 clients in that mana and I still get rid of them every quarter. They come on board. They give it, give it the picture of your life.
They don't follow our, it's not like it's, I'm a strict accountant. It's like, I just want someone that's passionate about their own business. And if you're not, you're gone. And, but the thing is when I transitioned from the, we used to charge hourly, we went from hourly to then fixed. And then we went from fixed to this new beam, ocean way of pricing and not one single client, even bat an eyelid and moaned about it.
They were like, I can, I use transparent if we need help, we've been the client. If I need, if I need help us, the client. I'm a business gets busier. I expect my price to go up. It's not going off. It's going, it's the same price. It's just that we offer more resources at time when you need it. Yeah. That's the thing of that.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:41:34] However, however, however, to challenge it, how are you
Stefan Barratt: [00:41:38] imbalanced? How
Paul Shrimpling: [00:41:39] it, how are you investing in the future? Humanity is a business that revolves around the people, not around the tech. I get the fact that you want to use the tech and the systems to make the front end relationship with your clients more effective.
I get that. Yes, but it still requires the. Knowledge and skill and habits of great human knowledge, skills, and habits, indeed, which can't all revolve around new Stefan. Otherwise the business is reliant on you and exclusively, and
Stefan Barratt: [00:42:04] therefore there's no count value attached to it or limited care. Absolutely.
So I mean, what we, as the apprentices and us, the stuff that got me through the realms. Obviously right now, George is very, very FA faced with some of the clients. So Joseph's all our proposals, swipe bottle I've been, I bought on that, the pricing. So then now George does all proposals. Nathan is the main person that takes all the telephone calls.
So as when we're growing as a practice, these as these kind of, you know, these trainees are coming through the realms that all becoming more client client facing. But what I want, I want the, like I say the experience. So when a client walks in. They get, they get obviously they get greeted at this sat down.
They'll get, we'll give them a bit a coffee. We'll have a beat, a little B motion local on the coffee, and then we'll give him a like happy emotion, notepad pen, all the usual stuff. But when it comes to the future, I mean, I want to take yourself out of the equation. I just want to be. I don't. I want to ruin the business, not be within the business.
Yeah. So I want to see director rather than a portfolio manager. Yeah. I don't want to be working in the business where I'm half and half now. So I spent half my time working on the business, spends half the time working in the business, but going back. I don't, as you can tell, I don't have a clear definitive definitive answer as to kind of how we could make it more human than we already do.
Is there, is this the, kind of the answer to that, getting more stuff on board and sharing the workflow where we're all speaking and liaising with the clients, but from like, it's what we already do now. I don't think we could actually make it any better. Personally, a client comes on board. We, we, you know, we speak to them on a monthly basis.
A daily basis if they need to, whatever they need us. But w you know, we challenge that business. We help them grow as a business. You know, I sometimes I think like, I, you know, I shouldn't be a business coach and start charging them for being a business coach because, you know, I'm, I'm always talking about their personal life and how's things for you personally, is it affecting your business?
You know, kind of, how can we, how can we help you individually? Not just your business move forward with whatever she should do now.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:44:08] Absolutely. And now we're having the conversation, which is it's about the business. Yes. But it's also about them and theirs. And what's interesting with your business
Stefan Barratt: [00:44:15] management piece to it.
Yeah. It's the business
thing. It's because I go quite personal with them and everything's on like a personal level. It's not just, here's your account. See you later. He's kind of how's things with the family. How, how will you get in? And, and it's, and the thing is because we're on a level where we're also grounded. That w with overcome friends, it's like a big family.
Yeah. So, and it would be like a client comes in and we're speaking. It's like, oh man, he could do have a mortgage, but I'll just, I'll, you know, I'll, I'll pass her on to you because I trust you. Oh. And my grandma needs, you know, a pension looking at. And so that's how we've grown so much because we are human.
Well, I wrote on the same level, it doesn't matter that we're professionals and you're not, or you're professionals and you are auntie Edna's aren't we? Yeah. We've
Paul Shrimpling: [00:45:01] all got an auntie Edna. Oh, the equivalent now. Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting.
Stefan Barratt: [00:45:05] But yeah. Let me, let me ask,
Paul Shrimpling: [00:45:07] let me ask this, let me ask this. So if one of your clients said we've got our customer care customer service model.
Absolutely. Now they don't see how we could possibly make it any better. Stefan, Stefan, what would you say to
Stefan Barratt: [00:45:16] them? I don't know. Maybe, maybe have a full review and see if you can make it any better. Right. Okay. I mean, today's, today's
Paul Shrimpling: [00:45:29] great. Is tomorrow is normal. Yeah. That's very true. Is out of business next
Stefan Barratt: [00:45:35] evolution, isn't it?
Yeah. The thing is that we're constantly thinking you can have the newest thing and the next best thing from a tech perspective, but also from a kind of, how can we do it better. So, and, and then that's what I always say to like, say the team. Bring ideas to the table, the daily basis we'll implement, and then we'll do, we'll do it going forward.
And that's why rose had to go. So yes, as I today could be doing anything better. Customer service, probably not, but tomorrow we could improve.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:46:06] Yeah. Cool. Cool. So his last question then, so of everything we've touched on today, which obviously you've done most of the talking, cause it'd be mostly about you.
So that's quite
Stefan Barratt: [00:46:18] right. Of
Paul Shrimpling: [00:46:18] everything you've covered off today, which one thing resonates with you the most in terms of having an impact on the way you are thinking going forward in terms of who I need to look at that, or we could do more of this or you just because of the nature
Stefan Barratt: [00:46:30] of the conversation.
Yeah. I think we should look at it. Marketing advertising. I think we should look at scrapping saying the free of charge. Absolutely. Cause you are absolutely bang on I get it. I absolutely get it. But I'm looking from someone that is looking at. The clients that we've got now and say, we can give them an extra service for free of charge, because that's essentially what it is, but I shouldn't cover ISR.
I should say we can add an extra service for the client. That's part of our services. But also when you say about how can we be kind of future-proof the human side of things, however, these extra services and having these extra things that, that help the client out. For example, obviously the pandemic hit.
And you would, and the amount of new clients that we got, we were sending out daily newsletters to all our clients and we were making it. And again, we use tech. So we said, right, we've got that set of practice management system. We put in, we implemented what sections clients were, whether you were a furlough kind of client, whether you were CIS client, whether you're Relevant, you know, a bounce back loan client, because obviously some could claim bounce back some couldn't whether you could claim the premises ground.
So what we did is we put everyone into their own sections and went right. Premises, grant newsletter, send bounce about loan, send this send. So everyone was getting the relevant information every single day where it was needed during obviously the time March, April may time, the amount of new clients that we've got was.
They would call and be like, yeah, I've gotten a counselor. I've not, and this happened a few times. I've not even been put on the payroll properly. So I can't even claim furlough kind of come and see, you can self presume and can come, can come on board straight away. And it's been great because we've added that human element, but in the systems behind it, just to fire all this information out and we registered for the government, the government updates, I got.
I think at its peak, it must've been 60 to 70 updates a day from the government. And that ranged from everything I was getting to updates right. The way through the night. So I was wake up in the morning and picking the information I needed thinking of the clients that it needed. I worked for pretty much a month of out getting paid me being chargeable because I didn't care at the time it was like desperation.
I wanted the clients to feel reassured because the end of the day, all these clients came to me and I was like, I don't know. Cause Boris doesn't know and you know, Rishi doesn't know how am I supposed to know? I'm not, you know, chancellor, but I felt like the chancellor, cause I was thinking if only I had him on tap because honestly I've got some questions.
So I was that and my pure focus point was I don't care about people. I don't care about our equity. We have enough equity to last us, I think while we can last six years without getting paid. Do you know what I mean? That's how much equity we've got with such a small firm. So I said, well, I'll get, I'll take a month off on paid, but I still got paid.
Cause obviously I've got equity amongst I'm often chargeable. Let's sort our client base out, make sure that they're looked after they feel reassured and then go from there. So yeah. Could we do that again? Absolutely. Yeah, but you just kind of focus on one thing.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:49:27] And you know, that's how you get things done is by focusing on one thing.
But ultimately if from this conversation, you've got value in, in terms of how better to use or not use free, how better to uplift what you're doing from a human perspective. Yes. Strategically on an ongoing basis, then you've got some value out of it, as well as for sure, Stefan, your passion for your business and your clients, which is fabulous.
And clearly you have a practice that already humanizes the numbers and is attracted
Stefan Barratt: [00:49:54] to be because. Yeah. And
Paul Shrimpling: [00:49:55] you know, we're all, we're all working
Stefan Barratt: [00:49:56] progress. We're all working. Yeah. Better. Don't get me wrong. Cause you can never, you can systems and processes are taken over and it is a concern that you see, you know, you've got, I think there's a digital practice online that you, yeah, I can't remember what it's called.
I mean, I wouldn't name anyway. The practice online that purely just doors. Just automation. So you don't get anyone, so you could ring up and it's like ringing HMRC, customer service. Like you get anyone, me business owners. They'll be one that one
Paul Shrimpling: [00:50:29] summer, one that, but there'll be lots who want the sort of humanity that you're
Stefan Barratt: [00:50:33] providing within your film.
Yeah. Yeah. It scares me that as we do progress with our tech and we've become very tech savvy, is that I'm constantly thinking I don't want to lose the human, the human touch when we never want to lose that human touch because the minute we lose the human touch. I've lost the focus on the core values of B motion that's for me is, is, is a killer.
So, and that's why every single day I set time aside that half a day is my chargeable time. Half a day is my non-chargeable. I'm a non-chargeable time focuses on the core of the emotion from a tech perspective and from a kind of a human perspective, how can we make the clients. And ex co kind of experience better, not just now, but also in the future.
And also what we do is we have, obviously the stuff that worked for us, we dedicate the stuff to the relevant client. So the client rings the one person, the client doesn't ring, just someone randomly and expects to speak to whoever it may be. We want that to have that close relationship going forward. So what I've also done as well is.
Because I obviously started being motioned in 2015 and everyone always came to me, obviously, as I got busier and busier, I called, and this was from a welfare now I think it is, is an it's called well, I think he called it the willing, but I call it deep emotion. And what that means is I take myself out of emotion.
So clients only speak to George, Nathan, Noah, Joel, et cetera. And they don't speak to me. The only way, the only time that they do speak to me is when we're going through all the good nitty gritty stuff, not the daily problems. Do you know what I mean? So the D the daily issues, I kind of dealt with the team, so, and he's like, and it's great because it used to be, I used to be the go-to person, but now it's like, oh, Nathan such a great life, you know, older, older, if feed back and get it, he knows so much.
And it's great because it used to be me. And now I'll pass that down. So that's to, yeah, well done.
Paul Shrimpling: [00:52:21] Well done. But I love that you know, let's keep the human touch, keep in touch with the core values of the business and then then you'll do all right. Stefan, it's been a brilliant conversation.
Really appreciate you taking time acting
Stefan Barratt: [00:52:32] very
Paul Shrimpling: [00:52:32] well. And she has the insights around be mentioned. Yeah. It sounds like you've been able to tell that you're going stronger. You're going to give stronger training. Thank you very, very much.
Stefan Barratt: [00:52:39] Thank you. Very, very, very welcome. No problem. Thank you.
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